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December 30, 2003 12:00 AM

The Memory-Optimization Hoax

RAM optimizers make false promises
Windows IT Pro
InstantDoc ID #41095
Rating: (1884)

Available Memory
I stated earlier that the Memory Manager gives a page of available physical memory to a process that experiences a page fault, but I haven't told you what defines available memory. The standby list is part of physical memory that the Memory Manager considers to be available. The other pools that contribute to available memory are pages that contain data belonging to deallocated virtual memory (e.g., pages containing data that belongs to processes that have exited) and pages that were freed and subsequently filled with zero data by the Memory Manager's low-priority zero page thread. Those types of pages are stored on the Memory Manager's free list and zeroed page list, respectively.

Figure 2 shows the transitions that occur between working sets and the page lists. Once per second, a system thread wakes up and calls the Memory Manager's working set manager to examine the System and processes' working sets. If available memory is low, the working set manager removes pages from the processes that haven't incurred many page faults in the past second. The removed pages go to the modified or standby list as appropriate and contribute to available memory. An important side effect of this tuning mechanism is that if the system needs memory for other processes, the Memory Manager takes pages from idle processes' working sets. Thus, those working sets eventually disappear, meaning that processes that remain idle for a sufficient length of time eventually consume no physical memory.

When a process needs a new page of physical memory, the Memory Manager first determines whether the page the process is accessing is in the standby or modified page list. The page will be in one of these lists if the page was removed from the process working set and not reused for another purpose. Placing that page back into the process working set is called a soft page fault because, unlike hard page faults, it doesn't involve a read from the paging file or other file on disk.

If the page isn't in the standby list or the modified page list, the Memory Manager takes a page from a list that has a page on it, checking first the free list, then the zeroed page list, and finally the standby list. If no memory is available, the Memory Manager triggers the Balance Set Manager to trim the process working sets and populate one of the three lists that make up available memory. If the Memory Manager has to remove a page from the zeroed page, free, or standby list for reuse, it determines how to access the targeted code or data, which can include reading the data from a paging file or an executable image or creating zero-filled data—if the application is allocating fresh data and the page taken wasn't from the zeroed page list.

Creating Available Memory
With that understanding of the Memory Manager's behavior, we can now turn our attention to the workings of RAM optimizers. The available-memory value that RAM optimizers display is the same value that the Task Manager shows as Available in the Physical Memory section on the Performance tab, which Figure 3 shows. That value is the sum of the sizes of the standby, zeroed page, and free lists. System Cache is the sum of the sizes of the standby list and the System working set. (In Windows NT 4.0 and earlier, File Cache reflects the size of only the System working set.)

RAM optimizers take advantage of the Memory Manager's behavior by allocating, then freeing, large amounts of virtual memory. Figure 4, page 21, shows the effect a RAM optimizer has on a system. The first bar depicts the working sets and available memory before optimization. The second bar shows that the RAM optimizer creates a high memory demand, which it does by incurring many page faults in a short time. In response, the Memory Manager increases the optimizer's working set. This working-set expansion occurs at the expense of available memory and—when available memory becomes low—at the expense of other processes' working sets. The third bar illustrates how, after the RAM optimizer frees its memory, the Memory Manager moves all the pages that were assigned to the RAM optimizer to the free list, thus contributing to the available-memory value. Most optimizers hide the rapid decline in available memory that occurs during the first step, but if you run Task Manager during an optimization, you can often see the decline as it takes place.

Although gaining more available memory might seem beneficial, it isn't. As RAM optimizers force the available-memory counter up, they force other processes' data and code out of memory. Say that you're running Word, for example. As the optimizer forces the available-memory counter up, the text of open documents and the program code that was part of Word's working set before the optimization (and was therefore present in physical memory) must be reread from disk as you continue to edit your document. The performance degradation can be severe on servers because the file data that's cached in the standby list and in the System working set (as well as the code and data used by active server applications) might be discarded.

Other RAM Optimizer Claims
Some vendors make additional claims for their RAM-optimizer products. One claim you might see is that a product frees memory that's needlessly consumed by unused processes, such as those that run in the taskbar tray. All such claims are untrue because Windows automatically trims idle processes' working sets. The Memory Manager handles all necessary memory optimization.

Developers of RAM optimizers also claim that their products defragment memory. The act of allocating, then freeing a large amount of virtual memory might, as a conceivable side effect, lead to blocks of contiguous available memory. However, because virtual memory masks the layout of physical memory from processes, processes can't directly benefit from having virtual memory backed by contiguous physical memory. As processes execute and undergo working-set trimming and growth, their virtual-memory–to–physical-memory mappings will become fragmented despite the availability of contiguous memory.

Having contiguous available memory can improve performance in one case: when the Memory Manager, to maximize the behavior of the CPU memory caches, uses a mechanism called page coloring to decide which page from the free or zeroed page list to assign to a process. However, any minor benefit that might result from making available physical memory contiguous is heavily outweighed by the negative impact of discarding valuable code and data from memory.

Finally, vendors often claim that RAM optimizers regain memory lost to leaks. This claim is perhaps the most patently false assertion of all.

The Memory Manager knows at all times what physical and virtual memory belongs to a process. However, if a process allocates memory, then doesn't free it because of a bug (an occurrence known as a leak), the Memory Manager can't recognize that the allocated memory won't be accessed again at some point and must wait until the process exits to reclaim the memory.

Even in the event of a leaking process that doesn't exit, the Memory Manager's working-set trimming eventually will steal from the process's working set any physical pages that are assigned to leaked virtual memory. That process sends the leaked pages to the paging file and lets the system use physical memory for other purposes. Thus, a memory leak has only a limited impact on available physical memory. The real impact is on virtual-memory consumption (which Task Manager calls both PF Usage and Commit Charge). No utility can do anything about virtual-memory consumption other than kill processes that are consuming memory.

Fraudware
I have yet to see a RAM optimizer that lives up to any of its claims. If you look closely, you'll often see that vendors have buried long-winded disclaimers on their Web sites that state what I've explained—that the product might not have any impact on a system's performance and might actually degrade it. Even without knowing how these products take advantage of the Memory Manager to inflate a highly visible and provocatively named memory metric, common sense suggests that if RAM optimization were possible (and could be implemented by so many small-time upstarts), Microsoft developers would have long since integrated the technology into the kernel.

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Comments
  • Lasttest
    2 years ago
    Mar 15, 2010

    Interesting to know.

  • APK
    4 years ago
    Oct 29, 2008

    Well, it took nearly 4 yrs. to find out yet more arstechnica member's lies & deceits here, such as impersonating, libelling, & threating my famliies homs + email harassing me (which their ISP/BSP's & HOSTING PROVIDERS for their websites all nailed them for):

    NOW, THE REAL MARTIN MESZAROS/DUHMEZ (MCSE, MCP+I, CNA) whom Jeremy Reimer & his arstechnica friends impersonated here has contacted me in regards to his being IMPERSONATED HERE (nothing new for the arstechnica scumbags that like to libel, lie, harass, threaten, & impersonate others as well, & where specifically I will note below in particular), & here were his words:

    ----

    Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 02:32:04 -0700
    From: "Marty Meszaros"
    To: APK
    Subject: Re: duhmez here APK - APK REPLY #1, sending 2nd time (I suspect someone's been impersonating you online & more): READ INSIDE... apk

    "This guy must have it in for you. Pretty funny to see him using my positive report and twisting it into negative... Feel free to use the upper part of this email as me denouncing the imposter"

    ----


    When Marty (whom I have known for decades online since my IRC days) responded back to me finally, in regards to the idiots from arstechnica impersonating he, here on this forums (as Reimer had done to myself on his own forums & at arstechnica no less):

    He just threw Jeremy Reimer into the garbage, for impersonating others online YET AGAIN, totally!

    Thanks Martin/Duhmez: This put the icing on MY cake, lol, & the last NAIL INTO THE ARSTECHNICA PEOPLE'S COFFINS ONLINE (as to their methods, dishonesty, & general scumbaggishness)...

    AND - Here are the excerpts here from THIS forums, where "Martin Meszaros" was impersonated by Jeremy Reimer:

    (A fake Martin Meszaros impersonator - which, of course as was already shown here numerous times by waarheid = veritas (another of Reimer's friends, probably Reimer himself though) in impersonating others online - which is nothing new to Jeremy Reimer - who admitted to impersonating me on his OSY website mind you, verbatim, in a quote of his own words (see 2-5 pages back where I proved this if need be), & the arstechnica forums people edited my postings (putting insanities I never stated into my posts there no less) on THEIR site from nearly a decade ago as well + waarheid = veritas one of Reimer's friends (Probably Reimer himself))...

    I KNEW + STATED THAT MUCH HERE earlier that I knew the "martin meszaros" here was NOT the real person (& Mr. Meszaros email to me above proves it):

    ----

    http://www.windowsitsecurity.com/articles/index.cfm?articleid=41095&cpage=190

    "God, I wish I'd never used this guys software - he's a complete joke. Let me just say that I didn't know anything about anything when I sent that
    email to him - and now I wish I hadn't. STOP USING ME AS YOUR ONLY EXAMPLE OF SOMEONE WHO WAS "HELPED" BY YOUR POS SOFTWARE!! I now realise what utter rubbish it is - I tried the mspaint trick, and it does the same thing. I feel like I've been had, and now I feel like I'm being used. APK; I wrote you in good faith, you jerk, now quit citing me as your ONLY example of someone that likes your software, because I DON'T anymore.

    Martin Meszaros October 25, 2004 (Article Rating: )"

    ----

    http://windowsitpro.com/articles/index.cfm?articleid=41095&cpage=8#feedbackAnchor

    "Well, Jowie Neckbone, or whatever else you're calling yourself these days after having been banned from so many places - ever notice that Ars Technica is one of the most popular sites on the Internet right now? Not bad for a pack of "losers", as you insist on calling them. The thing is, your 15 "points" don't make this article's premise incorrect -
    in fact, the irony is that you make Dr Russinovich's points for him - which is just one reason he hasn't bothered to reply. Finally, I am not impersonating anyone - just as you would never impersonate
    anyone. My name is Martin Meszaros, and you cannot possibly claim otherwise, unless
    you possess the psychic powers necessary to be able to see my birth certificate, driver's license, CCIE certificate or something.But you can't.:o)

    Martin Meszaros January 29, 2007"

    ----

    "Oh, and I take back anything I might have said in the past that might suggest I think his software is worth anything more than wiping my *** on.

    Martin Meszaros, MCSE, MCP+I, CNA"

    ----

    The the REAL Martin Meszaros (duhmez) response to the above statements, from my email excerpt above in correspondence with he, shows you all just how slimy the arstechnica crew are (Jeremy Reimer in particular) - to which Jeremy Reimer stated below that Mr. Meszaros "recanted his statements" I used i my list of points in favor of memory optimizers above?

    (This comes from, lol, Reimer's Alt.Fan.jeremy-reimer newsgroup - fans for what? An incompetent with no experience for years to decades in this field or no degrees in it either, as Jeremy Reimer lacks utterly on BOTH accounts):

    ----

    http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.jeremy-reimer/msg/89b3eb5149cae496

    Martin Meszaros View profile
    Feb 16 2005, 4:33 am

    Newsgroups: alt.fan.jeremy-reimer
    From: martin_mesza...@yahoo.co.uk (Martin Meszaros)
    Date: 16 Feb 2005 01:33:12 -0800
    Local: Wed, Feb 16 2005 4:33 am
    Subject: APK
    Reply to author | Forward | Print | View thread | Show original | Report
    this message | Find messages by this author Keep on kicking that dork's butt, dude - he loves it! Oh, and I take back anything I might have said in the past that might suggest I think his software is worth anything more than wiping my *** on. Actually, I didn't say it - in his inimitable style, he just pretended to be me.

    ----

    The only ones caught here pretending to be others, were Jeremy Reimer's pals (probably him most likely as usual) Veritas (who also admitted to posting as waarheid here to have it appear that many others disagreed with me, but, with NO technical documentation supporting them mind you, where I had TONS of that (see my 15 points above))

    Thus, this goes out to:

    ----

    1.) Jeremy "Slimer" Reimer (arstechnica "reporter" who has no years to decades of professional experience in ths field & it showed here - he was offtopic the ENTIRE time, & brought in his friends to "help" him, & only had their hand exposed when Veritas turned out to also be Waarheid here - posting as another identity to help "support" the other arstechnicans, but only showing how scumbaggish they really are in doing puny tricks that are EASILY exposed, in doing so.

    2.) Jay Little - the "self-proclaimed exchange expert", who didn't even REALIZE that "Memory Optimizers" have been shown to improve the performance of stalled Exchange Servers, by getting them running again when memory fragmentation freezes them up & who followed + harassed me on other forums (NTCOMPATIBLE.COM) where he was kicked out & outright WRONG on Ramdisks (to which Dosfreak, another arstechnican no less also, told him he was wrong/off as well no less) & BSOD stopcodes (IRQL_LESS_THAN_OR_EQUAL_TO, being bad device drivers caused).

    3.) Jarrett DeAngelis in particular (the latter denying that was his REAL name, outright lying about it in fact - but, in the end he HAD to admit that this is really he (he went by StarKruzr here & elsewhere online)) - because of some "detective work" I had done in this regards, & his admission I was correct in my points (how could I not be? Documentation from MS & other sources, as well as putting out users' experiences noting I am on various points does so as well)...

    ----

    Jeremy Reimer brought those 2 others I noted above in (as well as others, who are doubtless himself), to no avail:

    In the end, you see the kind of person Jeremy Reimer (& his arstechnica friends) really are - deceitful scumbags.

    APK

    P.S.=> Hey Jeremy Reimer: All in all? Thank you, for being SO stupid, in your USUAL "modus operandi" of impersonating others online, & being caught in it YET AGAIN HERE... lol!

    (As well being stupid enough to libel myself via "little edited pictures" of myself, & a little song you wrote about myself... as well as making death threats my way (Jay Little did this out of "geek angst" @ being caught flatfooted WRONG here where he stated literally he was "an expert on exchange", lol - SOME EXPERT!) + threatening my families' homes on your website OSY Reimer - to which your ISP/BSP stallled your harassing emails sent my way, which you stopped + your friends & yourself having your HOSTING PROVIDERS from crystaltech.com, petitiononline.com & others also remove your entire websites &/or sections of them for such lunacies on your parts - it got the police called on you finally, which stopped you TOTALLY in your tracks Reimer - you only brought it ALL on yourself, including this impersonation of Mr. Meszaros)

    Jeremy Reimer, Jay Little, & Jarrett DeAngelis - you have only exposed yourselves to the planet as liars, cheats, & deceitful scumbags: & for that? I truly DO thank you!

    After all - now, you have to live with it, because this is one of the most widely travelled places there is in this field online, & this is one of the most viewed articles here as well (you brought this on yourselves, not I, via your being caught impersonating others online)... apk

  • APK
    4 years ago
    Oct 20, 2008

    PeterQuentin (&, anyone else):

    To top off the bit from SLASHDOT (/.) above, & Terminal Server users being helped by memory optimization programs above (per my last post)?

    The original list I challenge ANYBODY to disprove as to its points is now below alongside it now, also

    (Good luck with disproving Microsoft's own documentation by the way, in regards to my challenge here):

    ----

    1.) Microsoft shows memory fragmentation causes Exchange Server 2003 (& prior versions) problems a lot (which memory optimizers stop, & even Dr Russinovich + Arstechnica even admit they can stop memory fragmentation)!

    *******

    Mark Russinovich - "Having contiguous available memory can improve performance in one case: when the Memory Manager, to maximize the behavior of the CPU memory caches, uses a mechanism called page coloring to decide which page from the free or zeroed page list to assign to a process."

    Mark Russinovich - "Developers of RAM optimizers also claim that their products defragment memory. The act of allocating, then freeing a large amount of virtual memory might, as a conceivable side effect, lead to blocks of contiguous available memory"

    *******

    XADM: The Extensible Storage Engine Database Engine Contributes to Virtual Memory Fragmentation Exchange 2000 Server, like many large scale programs, may experience virtual memory (VM) fragmentation. Over time, the server may not perform well, & you may not be able to mount storage groups because of VM fragmentation.

    http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;324118

    XADM: You Experience Excessive Virtual Memory Fragmentation on a Heavily Loaded Exchange Server Your Microsoft Exchange 2000 Server computer may experience virtual memory fragmentation at a much greater frequency than you expect. As a result, you may have to restart the Exchange 2000 computer more frequently than you expect.

    http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;828934

    ----

    2.) Microsoft producing clearmem.exe (which its description IS "Clear Memory" even in Windows Server 2003 reskits) & is in its default commandline, just another memory optimizer (as this article's author calls them)!

    DESCRIPTION (verbatim, from Microsoft's resource kit website) = Clearmem.exe: Clear Memory

    Not a "testing tool":

    *******

    Mike Rowe-Sarft - "Clearmem is *not* a fixing system, it is a tool for developers & testers." - Anonymous User - April 04, 2005

    *******

    (Point #3 right after this one shows otherwise as well as Microsoft's OWN DESCRIPTION of said program above.)

    ----

    3.) Also how memory optimizer apps can unfreeze lagged/frozen memory starved apps, such as how Microsoft's own Clearmem.exe unfroze apps & was cited from MS as being useful here:

    http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;234339

    "WORKAROUND You can run Clearmem.exe to recover from this problem. The Clearmem utility flushes the section used as file cache, thus the file object in question is dereferenced by running Clearmem."

    Above all - If these tools of this nature are "useless" etc., as Dr. Mark Russinovich claims?

    Why then does Microsoft, the inventor of this OS family, include clearmem.exe (a memory optimizer, albeit a bit crude in console/DOS commandline/character mode design & not nearly as feature-laden & automated) in their current resource kits for said OS' & since the NT 3.5x days no less?

    (&, before anyone tries the "they are unsupported by Microsoft", newsflash - it does not mean they don't work, they do. It's that Microsoft's technical support reps are not required to know them in detail or how to use them etc.)

    ----

    4.) Memory & diskcache freeup (which memory optimizers do forcing the VM subsystem to work globally & uniquely in mine messaging each app to do so from its discardeables) from the OS' native filesystem cache (which helps IBM DB/2) & IBM DB/2 mag backs this up below:

    *******

    Mark Russinovich - "Although gaining more available memory might seem beneficial, it isn't."

    *******

    OH, really? Read this:

    http://www.db2mag.com/qanda/030318.shtml

    "minimize the operating system's use of memory for file caching. By doing so, you maximize DB2's working set memory for buffer pools, sort heaps, & lock lists."

    &, what did Mike-Rowe Sarft say? Let's requote him, shall we?? Here we go:

    *******

    Mike Rowe-Sarft - ""If free memory is the enemy of performance?" What a ridiculous assumption - who said it was" - Anonymous User - April 14, 2005

    *******

    Dr. Russinovich himself, & the first replier to this article also, in Henry Mason:

    *******

    "I have just one comment: Free memory is the enemy of true performance" - Henry Mason - January 23, 2004

    *******

    I quote BOTH above - "RTFA"! To Mr. Mason, I suggest you read my reply here as well. Drink it in, & digest it.

    *******

    "If you could provide a range of successful examples of how a ram "optimizer" could actually benefit me as a power user or programmer or DB admin, I'd love to hear them" - amos_olson - August 11, 2004

    *******

    'Ask & ye shall receive AMOS OLSON': read the above excerpt from IBM DB/2 Magazine & the ones regarding Exchange Server (point #1) from Microsoft themselves above it also, as well as the rest of my 14 points here!

    ----

    5.) VERY IRONICALLY: A partial excerpt from arstechnica, stating that memory optimization techniques are useful (supplementing the VM fragmentation problems Dr. Russinovich concedes these programs prevent, especially w/ Exchange Server):

    (Regarding memory optimization/heap compaction uses, & alot of that article? Seems to 'bite off' of article #1 @ NTCompatible.com which I authored back in 1997-1998 as well: ah, the originality of arstechnica, NOT!)

    Anyhow:

    http://arstechnica.com/guides/tweaks/memory-1.ars/2

    *******

    "What is actually occurring when one 'defragments' the system memory is a dumping of main memory to the page file, forcing the computer to reload all of the active information into memory. In computing terms, this is called Heap Compaction, or Garbage Collection. You can use a small, Visual Basic program to perform this action. Simply open up a new file in notepad, input the line Mystring = Space(16000000), & save the file w/ the .vbs extension. Assuming you have the Visual Basic runtime libraries installed on your computer (they're installed by default by Win2k), when you execute this file it will flush the system memory. This is particularly useful after running a program w/ a known memory leak - it can be used to discard the leaked space & allow other programs to use that portion of memory again. If you have a large amount of system memory, you may wish to consider using a higher number w/in the brackets of the visual basic script - I have tested values up to 80000000 w/out any problems on my system. Using a higher number should more effectively purge the system memory of leaked space."

    *******

    Problem is? That VB-interpreted code mystring SPACE array allocate, write, deallocate would be TOO slow when compared to myself doing it in pure inlined assembler code & in combination w/ Delphi & does not automatically 'sense' how much to allocate/write/deallocate either!

    E.G.-> One of my testers (A Mr. John M. Mijo) can most likely second that, if you would like to write & inquire w/ him on it Jeremy Reimer, here is his email:

    John M. Mijo [jmmijo@comcast.net]

    Mr. Mijo ran "APK RamCharge 2002++ SR-1" (Delphi + ASM code) vs. "FreeRAM" (not sure what language this one was written in but, I would guess the usuals: C++ or VB coded)!

    Here were his comments on that comparison & the proof of my statements above from that tester of my program's results - &, Here's what he stated about it, as well as giving me suggestions on how to make mine better via a VERY good feature addition he felt was needed & suggested -

    "I do notice how much faster yours runs"...

    ----

    6.) Along w/ point #2 & #3, also in the example Martin Meszaros pointed out to me in email regarding the XNews newsreader problem he had which my "APK RamCharge" fixed for him.

    "I was downloading binaries from newsgroups, using Xnews newsreader. Xnews likes to keep all headers in ram, it only saves them to disk when closing the program. So here I am w/ 1 gig of memory usage,(my machine physically has 768 MB) & 4 physical megs of ram free for everything else. My system was CRAWLING. I fire up ramcharge, set for 128, I notice it snags 128 MB, fording other stuff off ram into pagefile, & then lets go. Whammy I got about 150 MB physical ram free & the machine stopped its crawling. this is an ingenious ram clearing strategy, & I don't believe any of the other crap "ram optimisers" do it this way. Martin Meszaros, MCSE, MCP+I, CNA"

    ----

    7.) The example of network copying of HUGE files/folders example one person provided which a memory optimizer cured also from the longer 10 points & examples list I provided above.

    "there are some bugs in the Memory Management. In some Posibilities the Cache Manager will grow & grow & will not Release RAM. This could cause a Systemcrash. You can test it by your Self, take a System w/ a lot off files & try to copy them over a Networkshare w/ the Explorer. The RAM used for Cache Manager will grow & grow & the System do not release this RAM because it has noth enough time to do it. In some cases (very fast Harddisks & Network, other treads that needs Systemperformance like Virus-Scanner) the System will Crash complete w/ errors like 1020, Noth enough Ram, e.g. The only way to prevent a Systemcrash is to force the System to free the Cachemanager. MK hacki01 -August 02, 2004"

    ----

    8.) Regarding games having more free RAM prior to play to stop lag in game - memory optimzer programs being used before loading the game to free RAM to stop that, & other hesitations which, again, 1 second of that can KILL you. You cannot evade shots taken @ you in effect if you are chained down because the game is out of RAM & has to page in more of its own data due to memory starvations.

    "For gamers forcing other processes out of memory to the VM is a good thing. Not everyone likes to use Task Manager to End Processs. Players of Planetside & other games will agree the more memory the better. If your claim that more Available Memory not being beneficial was correct, w/ regards to gaming, then most all Gamers (who lead the push for higher end PC parts)are all wrong for running 1Gb + of memory to increase performance. We should all be happy as clams w/ 512Mb as we can just page everything to VM & run it from there. If you decide to argue that gamers don't make up a large portion of the computing community you again would be wrong. Its a multiBillion dollar industry that is only getting bigger as time goes on. I will agree a desktop user running Word, Browswers, email, etc prob wouldn't find these Utilities useful, I think they can have a place of usefulness in the gaming Community for games we love that happen to be RAM HOGS. Greg Waggoner -June 13, 2004"

    ----

    9.) "Criticism is good but do you have solution for freeing RAM when my comp is slow w/ 512 MB of RAM? If it's true that memory management frees up my RAM after process exit, why is my RAM so occupied? Windows is not as perfect as you write in your article. They also have many bugs & some of your claims are not true at all" - Miro, June 14, 2004

    Yet another layer of icing on the cake also. Another replier here questioning the veracity & accuracy of Dr. Russinovich's article above.

    ----

    10.) "memory managers provide a bit of forward-planning that Windows doesn't have: if I want 10MB available for a busy app to grab w/out waiting, then it should be there. I shouldn't have to wait at a critical moment in the execution my app while Windows fiddles w/ RAM & writes a whole load of stuff to disk. That can happen when the app is less busy. That's what my memory manager does for me." - Donn Edwards - July 07, 2004

    ----

    11.) "I completely agree w/ Donn Edwards' post dated July 7th. Windows cannot foresee what a user will be doing next & this is what Mark Russinovich has ignored." - Heinz.Wehner - July 30, 2004

    ----

    12.) "brute-forcing pages out of physical memory might actually improve performance of some applications." - Andreas -June 11, 2004

    I agree Andreas, & showed a few such examples above, along w/ others here whom I quoted as well!

    Why do you think this other poster, whom I cite next below in point #13, wrote this earlier also:

    ----

    13.) "APK is right." - Jeremy A+, BA Comp Sci Anonymous User -April 15, 2005

    Here IS why - First of all, Dr. Mark Russinovich was WAY too "absolute" here in this article, imo, & didn't cover scenarios like:

    E.G. from above -> IBM DB/2 database engine being adversely affected by the native OS cache & its double buffering negative effect on performance.

    Freeing memory from other apps & the system cache for IBM DB/2?? By NO MEANS its enemy as shown above from their own magazine & forums articles.

    As well as virtual memory fragmentation adversely affecting Exchange Server 2003 negatively which Dr. Russinovich admits that memory optimizers CAN prevent, also shown above.

    ----

    14.) "Actually a memory optimizer is really necessary (I mean that a memory optimizer must be installed in order to complete this task) is using virtual machines on computers that don't have extraordinarily huge amounts of RAM." - NetRolller 3D December 15, 2005

    ----

    15.) FireFox memory fragmentation issues (as well as bloat/over-consumption of RAM due to it):

    http://blog.pavlov.net/2007/11/10/memory-fragmentation/

    That illustrates how/why FireFox has so much of a memory footprint & guess what its due to?

    You guessed it - memory fragmentation

    APK

  • APK
    4 years ago
    Oct 17, 2008

    Wow. I read this incredibly long comment thread just for the lulz this evening and can reach only one conclusion: This "APK" guy is completely out of his mind. Seriously, man. Get some help.

    peterquentin October 09, 2008

    ----

    Well, ok, here we go, again - Time to "shoot you down" too, WITH EASE, as I have done to others like yourself (mainly arstechnica people, see above & the pages prior to this one where they were caught here posting under "anonymous guises" to 'support one another', lol, & had their ISP's & HOSTING PROVIDERS restrain their harassing emails sent my way, & had their websites kicked from crystaltech.com & petitiononline.com as well for their blatant stupidity - especially Jay Little, the self-proclaimed "exchange expert", who was proven completely wrong, in regards to memory fragmentation halting exchange servers, & what stops that? Memory optimizers & their techniques!).

    So, that all "said & aside"?

    Here is another 'tidbit" of where others found memory optimization programs useful, & with Terminal Servers:

    http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=984089&no_d2=1&cid=25309381

    Pertinent excerpt:

    ----

    "It makes the system heap smaller, and flushes out LRU crap from the OS. Something that it should have had in a feature all along. It works increibley well on a Terminal server. Excellent. Increases stability, speed, usability, capacity.

    Marks solution? Buy a laptop with 4GB of ram, and get your company give you a superdome to play with.

    Mark? Can I have your Superdome?" - by killmofasta (460565) on Thursday October 09, @12:33AM (#25309381)

    ----

    That's in addition to documentation I put out here that showed memory optimization program techniques unfreezing halted Exchange Servers, and showing that even FireFox (widely used webbrowser worldwide) being adversely affected by memory FRAGMENTATION.

    Again - what's been shown to stop that & even get those systems running again? You guessed it - memory optimizers as Dr. Mark calls them here.

    (Other examples from other people with yet more programs abound in this thread also, in regards to memory fragmentation affecting them adversely, and what stopped it? Memory optimizers as "the good doctor" here calls them)

    ----

    SO PeterQuentin: What have you vs. those evidences to disprove them, in the way of technical information??

    NOTHING!

    ----

    By the way: Since you cast dispersion on me? Do you have a PHD in psychiatry to do so?? NO??? Didn't think so.

    Ah - go away, mudslinger, because @ least in the USA, we're sick of that type of crap & wise to it I would think finally, after the fine "republican leadership" we've been experiencing @ both the political & business levels here.

    Sure sure... everyone's "crazy", right? Some comeback there Peter... no technical substance, whatsoever.

    Isn't that what they said about the CEO of Overstock.com:

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/01/wikipedia_and_naked_shorting/

    When he posted the truths about "naked short selling", in regards to the Hedge Fund financial scandal going on lately?

    (& Gary Weiss the journalist said that about hiim, something along the lines of him being a madman etc.,, & under "anonymous guises" no less, just like Jeremy Reimer, Jay Little, & Jarrett DeAngelis (and others) from arstechnica.com did here to myself, and laughingly got caught by myself, doing so here, also?)

    ----

    Above all else - The truth is, nobody has been able to disprove what I wrote above, period, with anything of technical substance, have they?

    Above all else- Do you see "the great Dr. Russinovich" PhD, the guy I had to point out how to fix a program of his because it was a hardcoded rookie effort, to which he thanked me in email for, doing so??

    Nope... nada, squat, zero.

    Do you see his ideas (such as Henry Mason espoused of "using all free RAM for caching:" working with VISTA? Vista's a FLOP, & had tremendous problems in this regards, caching, & SP#1 didn't fix all of it either! Some "great idea", eh? To Mark R. - don't YOU work on VISTA?? I'd wager those are YOUR ideas, @ least in part... not too successful buddy!)

    Mr. Russinovich likes to toss names in his article, @ its termination, calling authors of this type of program "upstarts"?

    Heh, his own employer Microsoft PRODUCES such a program, the first of its kind afaik in fact (albeit in character mode form) no less, which is quite hilarious.

    PeterQuentin: IF reading longer postings is difficult for you? In addition to getting a PHD in psychiatry (before you call anybody crazy publicly, it might be advised you do so mind you)? Get "HOOKED ON PHONICS", or get meds for Dyslexia or ADD etc., ok?

    APK

    P.S.=> Mark R. has done some decent work, but, how was it achieved? Largely thru disassembly (look up his history with SoftIce for example) & his entire toolset shows a "bent" to that angle on his part...

    (I also see others working with him (like Bryce Cogswell & David Solomon - I wonder how much of the work was actually THEIRS, vs. himself?)...

    Ah - nuff said, because if I toss a name (like "rookie hardcoder" to Dr. Mark, because this "upstart" showed you ALL where he has been guilty of THAT much & more like NEWSID blunders outta the gate when he released it) it doesn't come w/ out some backing on my part, verifiable backing, unlike yours PeterQuentin (no doubt, you just another arstechnica "anonymous guises" poster, posting under another username like usual, which I proved that much going on from they above earlier, with their OWN words admitting it (veritas = waarheid))... apk

  • APK
    4 years ago
    Oct 17, 2008

    Wow. I read this incredibly long comment thread just for the lulz this evening and can reach only one conclusion: This "APK" guy is completely out of his mind. Seriously, man. Get some help.

    peterquentin October 09, 2008

    ----

    Well, ok, here we go, again - Time to "shoot you down" too, WITH EASE, as I have done to others like yourself (mainly arstechnica people, see above & the pages prior to this one where they were caught here posting under "anonymous guises" to 'support one another', lol, & had their ISP's & HOSTING PROVIDERS restrain their harassing emails sent my way, & had their websites kicked from crystaltech.com & petitiononline.com as well for their blatant stupidity - especially Jay Little, the self-proclaimed "exchange expert", who was proven completely wrong, in regards to memory fragmentation halting exchange servers, & what stops that? Memory optimizers & their techniques!).

    So, that all "said & aside"?

    Here is another 'tidbit" of where others found memory optimization programs useful, & with Terminal Servers:

    http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=984089&no_d2=1&cid=25309381

    Pertinent excerpt:

    ----

    "It makes the system heap smaller, and flushes out LRU crap from the OS. Something that it should have had in a feature all along. It works increibley well on a Terminal server. Excellent. Increases stability, speed, usability, capacity.

    Marks solution? Buy a laptop with 4GB of ram, and get your company give you a superdome to play with.

    Mark? Can I have your Superdome?" - by killmofasta (460565) on Thursday October 09, @12:33AM (#25309381)

    ----

    That's in addition to documentation I put out here that showed memory optimization program techniques unfreezing halted Exchange Servers, and showing that even FireFox (widely used webbrowser worldwide) being adversely affected by memory FRAGMENTATION.

    Again - what's been shown to stop that & even get those systems running again? You guessed it - memory optimizers as Dr. Mark calls them here.

    (Other examples from other people with yet more programs abound in this thread also, in regards to memory fragmentation affecting them adversely, and what stopped it? Memory optimizers as "the good doctor" here calls them)

    ----

    SO PeterQuentin: What have you vs. those evidences to disprove them, in the way of technical information??

    NOTHING!

    ----

    By the way: Since you cast dispersion on me? Do you have a PHD in psychiatry to do so?? NO??? Didn't think so.

    Ah - go away, mudslinger, because @ least in the USA, we're sick of that type of crap & wise to it I would think finally, after the fine "republican leadership" we've been experiencing @ both the political & business levels here.

    Sure sure... everyone's "crazy", right? Some comeback there Peter... no technical substance, whatsoever.

    Isn't that what they said about the CEO of Overstock.com:

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/01/wikipedia_and_naked_shorting/

    When he posted the truths about "naked short selling", in regards to the Hedge Fund financial scandal going on lately?

    (& Gary Weiss the journalist said that about hiim, something along the lines of him being a madman etc.,, & under "anonymous guises" no less, just like Jeremy Reimer, Jay Little, & Jarrett DeAngelis (and others) from arstechnica.com did here to myself, and laughingly got caught by myself, doing so here, also?)

    ----

    Above all else - The truth is, nobody has been able to disprove what I wrote above, period, with anything of technical substance, have they?

    Above all else- Do you see "the great Dr. Russinovich" PhD, the guy I had to point out how to fix a program of his because it was a hardcoded rookie effort, to which he thanked me in email for, doing so??

    Nope... nada, squat, zero.

    Do you see his ideas (such as Henry Mason espoused of "using all free RAM for caching:" working with VISTA? Vista's a FLOP, & had tremendous problems in this regards, caching, & SP#1 didn't fix all of it either! Some "great idea", eh? To Mark R. - don't YOU work on VISTA?? I'd wager those are YOUR ideas, @ least in part... not too successful buddy!)

    Mr. Russinovich likes to toss names in his article, @ its termination, calling authors of this type of program "upstarts"?

    Heh, his own employer Microsoft PRODUCES such a program, the first of its kind afaik in fact (albeit in character mode form) no less, which is quite hilarious.

    PeterQuentin: IF reading longer postings is difficult for you? In addition to getting a PHD in psychiatry (before you call anybody crazy publicly, it might be advised you do so mind you)? Get "HOOKED ON PHONICS", or get meds for Dyslexia or ADD etc., ok?

    APK

    P.S.=> Mark R. has done some decent work, but, how was it achieved? Largely thru disassembly (look up his history with SoftIce for example) & his entire toolset shows a "bent" to that angle on his part...

    (I also see others working with him (like Bryce Cogswell & David Solomon - I wonder how much of the work was actually THEIRS, vs. himself?)...

    Ah - nuff said, because if I toss a name (like "rookie hardcoder" to Dr. Mark, because this "upstart" showed you ALL where he has been guilty of THAT much & more like NEWSID blunders outta the gate when he released it) it doesn't come w/ out some backing on my part, verifiable backing, unlike yours PeterQuentin (no doubt, you just another arstechnica "anonymous guises" poster, posting under another username like usual, which I proved that much going on from they above earlier, with their OWN words admitting it (veritas = waarheid))... apk

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